Many religions (such as Jehovah Witnesses) believe that after we die, that's it. It's the end of everything. What do you believe? I strongly believe in an After-life, I do not think life could have a purpose if we were to live and die, basically hopeless. I have read many books concerning near death experiences which agrees with my personal thoughts on the matter.

I thought Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is an afterlife for a select few (the 144 000 as stated in the Book of Revelations)?

As far as I understand, they do believe that a select group (the 144,000) are "the saved". That is, they get to go to "heaven". They believe that about half of those select are still on this earth. As for the rest, they believe they remain here on earth in some other form. I've had some discussions with some of these people and they have an answer to every argument you present to them, and they treat you like you're an ignoramus, but they don't see the inconsistencies in their own belief system.

Hi Mindful...in 1984 I had an NDE experience. Before this experience I believed in life after death but after the experience it became not a matter of belief but a matter of KNOWING there is life after death. Only our physical body dies, our consciousness which I suppose could be looked upon as our soul, lives on. I can tell you from the experience that I was with a presence who emotionally spoke to me through his eyes and told me..."you are in the state your world calls death...you are energy...you cannot stay it is not your time." So there is something there we need to understand, the presence of higher beings who do not manifest physically. Also there is no sense of time there and the tunnel of light spoken about down through history was like moving through a space of light swirling with darkness, not a tunnel itself but it gives the spatial feeling of passing down a tunnel. The experience changes you forever because it is a break from your sense of yourself as a physical body, it is also the end of your fear of death.....

Regards Mikal

Mikal, what a special experience. These "higher beings" you refer to may not be "God" as Christians believe, but it would surely give the atheists something to think about.

Hi Dig....most people I meet and speak with do not want to discuss these higher beings. I really do not know what they are other than they are higher beings of creation who do not manifest physically. However, I know from the experience they are as real as you or I and of course atheists just say the NDE is hallucination in the brain. I guess you have to experience it to know and be affected by it. The presence that was with me touched my shoulders and for months after the experience I had these running sensations all across my shoulders as though my body remembered the touch....the presence that was with me also told me he would take me back....the experience a little like being poured back into your body and it made my arms and legs feel like they weighed a million pounds....I could not lift them or get up which I felt urged to do.....
this is strange stuff to be sure!!!!

Regards Mikal

I believe people can have out of body experiences, and I don't mean the drug effect. There have been many people who have been resuscitated and say they went through that same exact thing. Is it group hysteria? I doubt it.

I find that if you touch on anything religious or spiritual, most westerners won't want to discuss it. However, those of other religions might be interested. It's a downward trend in Christianity.

I've been in touch with alot of people who have experienced an NDE and there would be truth in the fact that there is comfort in numbers. Comparison of experience reveals diverse details as to what is experienced but the aspect of meeting a presence and the tunnel is present in every experience.

I believe the downward trend in religion and christianity is taking place because we are simply passing through some evolutionary social development that is allowing us to consciously perceive and understand the social, economic and political forces which rather push and pull us in and through the drama of our lives...

I assure you, what I am aware of today, I was not aware of 30 years ago and in consideration of my NDE, I look upon this change as the actual break from the physical body and the sense of yourself as a physical being rather raises one up instantaneously, out of the collective mind-set of society...I guess you could say that we can either be immersed in that collective mind-set which does not really allow higher understanding or we can disengage from that collective mind-set to the point where we can enjoy the function of observation of the collective.....

Regards Mikal

So, can you describe the emotions you felt, if any, while you were experiencing all this? Were you consciously thinking of anything?

(08-10-2009 06:01 PM)Digressor Wrote:  So, can you describe the emotions you felt, if any, while you were experiencing all this? Were you consciously thinking of anything?

Well I'll give a good shot at these questions!

Emotions here while we are physical are like we either flow with them, react to them or respond with them and most often if they are tough emotions we fight against feeling them.

Wherever you go in an NDE...let us call it a space almost like the porch to the otherside...it is a purely emotional state devoid of struggle because communication there is not through voice or speaking it is through emotional expression and recieved telepathically from the presence to yourself. There is no sound there so emotionally one feels an intensified level of peace that is expansive.

Consciousness is different there in the sense that perceptually I felt hyper-conscious. I was aware of being in a body like mine on earth but let us say a super-sensitive body where the being did not actually touch what would be my skin on earth but just touched the space around me from about 6 inches out. I was aware of that. I had no reaction to what the presence said to me, just listened. I had no memory of my daughter who I had left sitting beside my bed. I did not have any realization that I was on the periphery of death, that wondering came later after I returned to my physical body...


Mikal

That is very interesting. It's like what I had imagined. When people die and they're suffering pain just before that, I always imagine that release from the physical realm. At least, I had hoped that it was that way.

My mother had cancer and had intractable pain at the end. She had a difficult time accepting her mortality, but my brother said that a few days before she died, she did mention that she believed she only had a few days left. I think those near death must also sense something from the world beyond. She was on a morphine drip before she slipped into unconsciousness and died before I arrived. I also imagined that the dead watch over us and see our reactions, but when I think about it, I imagine them in another world without any sense of the world they left; therefore, they could not possibly be watching us. Yet, there are always stories of angels and ancestors watching and helping. Is it possible they can once they've crossed over to the other side? Who knows.

Atheists don't believe in higher beings or a soul or even ghosts. They will always use science to explain any "supernatural" element. But, I believe in a soul, a part of the being that also influences the conscious or subconscious. I know some religions believe in reincarnation, almost like recycling a soul. I think that may be possible in some cases; though, I draw the line on coming back as animals and insects. I just have a hard time believing that they have souls, but I could be wrong.

Then it brings me to the question of good and bad. Do the good and bad have similar NDEs? If you're a religious person, you might believe the bad go to hell, but do they? If not, is it worth worrying about being good in life? I'm sure people have different views on that.

Hi Dig…my deepest sympathy for the loss of your mom, I have also lost my mom but unlike you I was fortunate enough to be present and to hold her hand and to speak into her ear just before her death that we loved her and she had been the best mom on earth….smiles…I feel she left with that message embracing her heart.

Do the dead watch over us? I am fully aware that in an NDE a person is on the periphery of death and have talked to enough people who have experienced NDE to know that on the periphery there is no memory of your life on earth however for one who actually crosses that could be different and I say that because when I lost my young nephew who was only 18, I ask him in deep contemplation for a miracle, a sign that would allow his parents the strength to go on without him. I told my younger sister she would get a sign, a miracle from her son and I explained what that sign would be. I explained this sign to many who came to a luncheon to honor his young life. Of course I was hugged and told how naive I was but later as my words came true and the miracle and sign unfolded there were only people in awe, bewilderment and shock. From that experience I strongly feel the dead have a connection to us.

I am not a religious person. When I was young I had an inner aversion to religion and by 12 was debating my father as to how damaging religious instruction was to me as a child going through the passages of growing up. I was not easily conditioned, attended a catholic school and experienced a very angry nun at the end of a leather strap. Even being so young, I measured and weighed that a nun should be loving and peaceful not a harbinger of hatred, beatings and cruelty.

My walk with God has been a personal, private journey of talks, questions, small arguments and always pleading for understanding. That journey did not entail alignment with religion, a church or a fixed dogma about life. I reckon from my own life I am a spirit learning how to be physical, human and of course as a soul I am holding presence in the greatest school of learning there is….life.

I have not talked to anyone yet who reported an NDE that was bad. I really think the concept of hell is a part of religious dogma which uses fear to have control and power over another person’s life.

Regards Mikal